What will happen with the class splits?

[Oscar Hardwick]

I've seen the recent news post RE: the sheer number of sign ups. It says that the top 10 in each class will qualify in except in P1.

I'm a little thrown off. Will the P1 class also get 10 cars in from it's current grid of 12? Or will some of the P2 teams be added to P1 so as the classes are spread somewhat evenly?

Alternatively will a smaller number of P1 cars qualify in opening up more qualifying spots to the oversubscribed classes?

I'm not sure if a decision has been made on this yet but it'd be great to know the direction that it's heading in.

Cheers,

- Oscar.

 

[Jimmi Allison]

Its not been posted anywhere what exactly will happen - this is being worked on. We cant please everyone - but currently NO teams will advance to P1.
Only P2 teams will be looked at - but from the current look of things, no teams will make it.

One way or the other - we cant please everyone - but I WANT to make sure that LMP1 isent reckless drivers - which means this will never again be an open class.
Does this mean they will be favorites? no not really - will this mean they will go into Topsplit - probably yes. Will this mean that LMP2, GTE-Pro or Am gets less spots - well obviously if the track cant handle 89 teams... yes
However that will give the second race less traffic and more close fights in the 3 classes.

So count on P1 being in ONE race only.

 

[Tomas Beha]

Hmm, that's not ideal IMHO, both splits should consist of even class-count - otherwise it'll get easier to earn a good position = good points, in top-split due to fewer cars per class.

I'd recomnend 6 P1s, 12 P2s and 2x11 GTEs per split.

 

[Jimmi Allison]

Short answer no, but again - IT IS NOT FINALIZED
But i have a pretty good idea on what i´d like to see

 

[Oscar Hardwick]

I have to agree with Tomas. Either that or move some P2 teams but you seem very much not on board with that.

Having 12 P1s qualify for 10 spots would mean the premier class is just not as competitive as any of the others. There would, simply put, be barely any pressure on the LMP1 teams for qualifying as a good number of the drivers could turn up on the day at the moment and stick it above 2 of the newer/ weaker teams in the class.

Presently P2 would be where the strongest competition is and that'd be far from ideal given LMP1 "should" be considered the pro/ premier class.

 

[Jimmi Allison]

I see Tomas´ point - do i have to agree, not really ;-)
No matter what you think Oscar, you have to remember that LMP1 is the class where most incidents will "spawn" from, so if you ask me right now - will any P2 teams be promoted, my answer is no. Could they be - yes when we have some data on those drivers.
Why do you think P2 has the strongest competition - and why shouldnt there be strong competition in all classes?
Especially when, for example, a S7 P1 driver signs up in an Am class ;-)
I´m not trying to create unfair racing in any class - but just because LMP1 is closed, dosent mean that LMP2 class is all of a sudden where the best drivers are going to be. Remember GTE-Pro last season?
LMP1 for me is the high skilled drivers, who has a good SR and is also fair and fast.

If I, or the stewards think so, we will force teams to jump into another class, and this is considered a new sign up, so you´d better be in the class you fit

However, no matter what you think is the right choice or the best way, there is always gonna be another way of doing things - its just a matter of finding the best option that the stewards and I can come up with.

 

[Oscar Hardwick]

P2 has (most probably) the strongest competition as there are the most entries in it of any class so it is statistically likely. Also given the ruling on how drivers qualify for LMP1 there are a number of teams (not limited to LMP2) which contain drivers who are as good, if not better than some of the drivers in P1. I am not saying that all of these entries wanted to be in LMP1 but you get the idea. All the other classes will statistically speaking have drivers who are fast enough and capable enough to compete with the current list of LMP1 teams.

P1 has a lot of good drivers. Most of them are close to alien granted. But they all need to beat just 2 teams and there are a couple of teams in there that are weaker, so in terms of qualifying in to the races it just is not as hard in LMP1 as it will be in any other class at present unless for example all the other classes have a huge spread on pace team to team, which is possible but not all that likely.

I am in the Am class simply as it was where my drivers wanted to go and we couldn't enter LMP1 as I am the only driver that would qualify to do so. No matter what I did I was going to have to move down a class somewhere or another and the discussion in team lead to me being in the Am car as it was best suited to all of our drivers' needs.

In brief I do get where you are coming from but the truth is that the difficulty level will be increased in the oversubscribed classes than in LMP1 simply due to LMP1 having basically half the entries of any other class. I understand that this is as per the rules you have put together but surely there should be some weighting to the split of classes so as to spread the competition and not condense it to the classes where 30 people are fighting for 10 spots.

 

[Christian Michel]

Well but even if you would promote some more Teams into the P1 class, a thing that im thinking about is that the 2nd Group - where the "slower" (no offensve) Cars get in, should bring less points in all classes...cause the first Race is harder for all of them - that will lead to trouble for sure between the Teams. It's not fair in my Opinion that for example the winner of the GT Pro in Group 1 gets the same Points as GT Pro winner in Group 2, this could lead at the end of the championship to an overall winner only due to the fact of Group 2 driving. Then this would be an incentive to get into Group 1.

But luckily it's not my job to make a decision there

 

[Jimmi Allison]

OK, some facts, which may or may not weigh in on Tomas´ suggestion.
Why would GTE get 2x11 each -
Theres is "only" 21 Pro´s but 27 Am´s
In P2 theres 29 - so to be fair it has to be something else.

Room 1 (top split)
6 P1, 13 P2, 10 Pro and 11 Am´s - if one would go for a "fair" difference between the amount of signups vs room on the server.
Room 2 (bottom split)
6 P1, 13 P2, 10 Pro and 11 AM
In total thats:

12 P1, 26 P2, 20 Pro and 22 Am
Which leaves out:
0 P1, 3 P2, 1 Pro and 5 Ams (so is P2 really the class that has the most competition?)

Just count on my words - not all teams will be able to race each round, and i´ve been here long enough to say that not all teams will show at all races or even show on any races.

I have never said the P1´s would have to outqualify anyone, my post meant that the topsplit race (or whatever we decide to call it) could have all 12 teams in.

But again, its a matter of choosing which path we want to go. I´d choose the one where most teams get to race.. dedicated teams.

Also points, there will be some adjustments to this - we are getting closer - dont worry. Expect for at least 80 teams to get a spot and can earn points.

 

[Tomas Beha]

"6 P1, 13 P2, 10 Pro and 11 AM", would still be a much better solution. But now I've worded my opinion on the matter atleast

 

[Oliver Zierach]

I can see everyones position here, its not easy at all due to different quality and quantity of classes.

What my idea is, if its allowed, keep it simple.
Take 40 slots, 10 each class for the VEC. Allow some teams from LMP2 to move into LMP1, if interest is there, to level the LMP1 class in terms of quantity.
Than do the quali, fastest 10 of each class will run the VEC main race.
The other entries move into the VEC support race.

For the main race it will give Full points for the VEC championchip. Example 100-95-90 etc down to 10th place(maybe 55 points for 10th place/class)
Than in the support race the first placed in each class will be placed in points right after the Main race field. Example first of support race earns 50points, second 45 etc.
This would keep every team in the VEC Championchip. But it will still leave to strong qualifyings because every team wants to race in the main race, earning most possible points.

 

[Michael Barnard]

Quick question on the points system. If you and the admins decide to go with a split format. Will the points be split in half? For instance. Winner of each class get's 25 points in a normal 6 hour race. Well does the same happen for the lower class? Im sure if that was the case you'd start to see so called "sand baggers" trying to drop into the lower split to get "easier" points. IMHO, do a 10 point scale. 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 for the lower split.

 

[Daniel Miebach]

I think this a detail, which will be figured out or worked out, when all Details about the split mechanisms are clear . This isn't clear at the moment and won't be clear unless there is a final decision , because it depends on the exact details, I guess.

 

[Jimmi Allison]

Im sorry, but i wont answer anymore questions about this - it seems to get more people involved and more questions asked. Patience guys, theres more to it than answering a simple question. A rule set has to be built, mod has to be released, skin has to be checked etc etc.
I will post when we have reached a decision.

 

[Yoeri Gijsen]

To be honest, I think the discussion is a bit silly. There are seven seasons worth of experience in the stewards' backpacks. If that experience leads to the conclusion that P1 should a be a closed class of which the entries are priviledged to start in the top split, then who are we, sole participants reaping the benefits of other people's organisational efforts without charge, to argue. Sure, posting suggestions is fine. Arguing or pressing a point? Not so much. If you want to call the shots, then maybe you ought to take a look at THIS.