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Round 2 - Road Atlanta

Bernd Schmidt

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3474 - H. Wollert turns left on the backstraight, into A. Karkuszewski, forcing him into the wall. With heavy damage, A. Karkuszewski goes from left to right across the track, hitting B. Zwartenbol, which makes both cars spin. A. Karkuszewski locks his brakes for a second, then releases them and rolls back onto the circuit, collecting A. Schmurtz. This contact leads to A. Schmurtz hitting B. Zwartenbol again, who then nearly collects J.M. Cardenas.
Penalty - H. Wollert - Avoidable contact; 60 second stop and hold
Penalty - A. Karkuszewski - FTLB and avoidable contact with B. Zwartenbol; 60 second stop and hold
Penalty - A. Karkuszewski - FTLB and avoidable contact with A. Schmurtz; 60 second stop and hold
Stewards note: Penalty for FTLB are harsh here, but thats because it caused a major crash due to it


What is this ?!?
How was this "avoidable" accident ?

I was pushed with 200kmh into wall, my suspension was bend heavy, I had no control over car. If I would hit breaks I would end up in the middle of track anyway. There was no chance to "stop" the car in matter of few meters.
I didnt cause the major accident , but now I am the one who is most penilized ... seriously ?

Is it not enough penalty for ME that we got DNF , because of H.Wollert ? He destoyed our race and that LMP2 of Schmurtz. It wasnt me, and now we are heavy affected by it for next round.

In the name of WHAT ?


You came across the track, collecting a car. Then rolled back onto the track because you still hadn't locked your brakes and collected another car. B. Zwartenbol (Whom you originally collected) did lock his brakes, was stationary and predictable and therefore didn't collect any more cars.

Either way, any driver who spins or is off track and doesn't lock his brakes, will be held accountable for resulting contact
 

Daniele Vidimari

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it looks to be reactionary, the normal line was to stay to the right
Of course it was made on purpose and reactionary, that's the reason of my question "how to defend the position if this is blocking".
You say this wouldn't have been a penality if Alessio moved to the left earlier, makes sense but, how to quantify "earlier"? This toataly makes sense when you are in a straight line and you change the line in the last moment, but before the braking zone here there is a blind corner, turn 9, which is flatout yes, but physically is still a corner when you can do different lines, different entries and different exits.
So how much earlier? Before the turn 9 which leads in a 250 meters long braking point, or before the braking point itself? In the first case, if that is the rule, i understand even if i think it's way too harsh. If the latter, what i see is that Alesssio slightly moved to the middle before the braking zone.

Said that, i still don't see the block itself since the car behind found its way in the inside line, Alessio even slightly moved to the right to give him room, he gave room in the first apex and he got squeezed in the following apex, overtake completed for the car behind at the end.

Ok then, waiting for an answer to my 2nd question.
 

Bernd Schmidt

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Race direction, i have 2 questions.

1.

How is Alessio supposed to defend the position if this is punished with a DT for "blocking"?

From rules: "Blocking is defined as altering the race line in reaction to another driver in an attempt to prevent a pass."

So, if taking a corner (the one before the braking zone) a bit wider, in a smooth way and braking in the middle in a straight line is altering the race line, how can we defend our position when a opponent is in our draft?

This is a DT and being squeezed in the apex by a driver who take the corner as you are transparent is nothing? But this a rhetorical question.

2.

Penalty - T. Urbinati - Avoidable contact; Drive through

Avoidable... how? How Tiziano could have avoided the contact when he was forced to take the very inside line to allow the P2 to lap him, and a lapped driver in a GTE tried to overtake him in the middle of the line, in the most single line turn of the world?

You said: "T. Urbinati hits the kerb of turn 5 and goes wide into C. Rodger " but is not true, the kerb is very flat and you can take it without any danger at full speed, is just the turn that allow a single line with a GTE, unless you mount a F1 style front wing.

Please a member to the race direction, answer to my 2 questions, we would love to avoid that kind of penalities next time.
First is because the move from the car in front was pretty late.

Second could have avoided with less speed and as we saw intention that everything was tried to avoid it, its not a full penalty with a 60sec S&H, but contact has made which was the reason for handing out a penalty at the end

Hope that's clear it up for you
 

Jimmi Allison

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You came across the track, collecting a car. Then rolled back onto the track because you still hadn't locked your brakes and collected another car. B. Zwartenbol (Whom you originally collected) did lock his brakes, was stationary and predictable and therefore didn't collect any more cars.

Either way, any driver who spins or is off track and doesn't lock his brakes, will be held accountable for resulting contact
While i have not reviewed any incidents for VLMS this is by far the worst i´ve seen in some years.
Now i normally do not comment on incidents like this, but i feel like this should be adressed! especially when you cant see that you made a big mistake.

Yes H Wollert is blamed for the initial contact, but that does not give you card blance to behave like you did - ruining other teams races. I see 3 other cars being affected by you. If i would i would have suggested someone had to go through SRCA again. You CLEARLY do not understand what locking brakes are. If you are "not in control of your car" then the first thing you need to do is brake, and do not lift the foot from the brake before you are fully stopped. Now i´ll take my admin duties off for a second and ask - WHAT did you think would happen when you reverse backwards onto track?!???
 

Adam Karkuszewski

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so bassicly , my penalty is only for not hitting break pedal. RIght ?
So if I would spin (but with break pedal pressed) and other cars 2-3 or more would hit me ... I would be "Okay-dokay " ?

But still , dont You think that is too much , consider that because of him (Wolert), we got DNF in first place ?!? That at least ONE 60 sec stop and go would be enough ?
 

Jimmi Allison

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so bassicly , my penalty is only for not hitting break pedal. RIght ?
So if I would spin (but with break pedal pressed) and other cars 2-3 or more would hit me ... I would be "Okay-dokay " ?

But still , dont You think that is too much , consider that because of him (Wolert), we got DNF in first place ?!? That at least ONE 60 sec stop and go would be enough ?
(again i have not reviewed and only looking at the gif) your penalty is for hitting other cars, if you applied brakes you would have been a lot more predictable than what your were.
First you are on the left side - off track, then a few seconds later on the actual racing line, then off the track and reverse back on track.
If you applied the brakes these 2 incidents would not have happened, you would have missed the first car and you would not have reversed back on track.
 

Daniele Vidimari

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First is because the move from the car in front was pretty late.

Second could have avoided with less speed and as we saw intention that everything was tried to avoid it, its not a full penalty with a 60sec S&H, but contact has made which was the reason for handing out a penalty at the end

Hope that's clear it up for you
It cleared your point of view, but i 100% disagree expecially in the 2nd situation with 100% fault for Tiziano. I mean, seriously? What can he do more than applying brakes, not applying throttle and fight the understeer? Where the lapped BMW driver decided to overtake him not even in the outside line, but in the middle? A lapped car that try to overtake you in the most critical turn of the track.

I know that agree/disagree doesn't change anything, i know that the race director is a demanding task, i know that the race itself was a mess and overwhelming and i can feel your disappointment when you (the team) were looking to the IRRs and i'm not even asking to change anything, my point is that there is no lesson the learn here and the next time it will be the same, because we did everything to avoid the contact and the driver in the BMW did nothing. Tiziano's fault was only to be in the inside line to help the lapping P2 driver.

UPDATE

5.5 Entering a turn, the passing driver must minimally get their front wheels even with the rear wheels of the car they are passing before the point of turn-in, to have earned the right to a lane. At this point the driver being passed is responsible to leave a lane open.

even_this.png

So, add the fact the BMW driver didn't even had the right to pass, and remember he was a lapped driver.
 
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Bernd Schmidt

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After carefully reviewing the results from both races, we have decided to move outside our rulebook. Due to the extraordinary nature of the situation, we had to figure out what it meant and how many have been using this. However, this is not as black and white as some people say, as this can be used accidentally in a way by teams to simply save time during a swap and not change tyres. However, the benefits of using this bug are clearly substantial. While we in the admin team have been going back and forth and thought through many scenarios, we can only come up with one that is fair towards anyone who did not use this exploit at Istanbul and at Road Atlanta.

Before going into what the outcome is, I´d like to say - on our forum I expect you to behave in a certain way towards any member. Regardless of what type of member, what driver, what team, if a team was involved in this or not. I do not want to see any unsportsmanlike behavior on our forums. With regards to that, I'd like to draw your attention to rule 11.4 - Drivers are expected to participate in an ethical and sportsmanlike manner. Taunting, trash talking, and berating other drivers for any reason will not be tolerated and may lead to expulsion. Not towards a driver nor staff. I will refer to and use 11.4. I understand that frustration is part of how people have reacted, same goes for myself.

People are allowed their own opinions, however, sometimes you don't have to share these. We ask that you think before posting. THIS IS THE FINAL DECISION, no matter if you think this is right or wrong or somewhere in the middle.

While we are now going beyond our existing rules, we need to be consistent. It is clear that any team that used this (intentionally or not) has gained an advantage. The more you used it, the more you likely knew it was a bug, which is why a penalty towards using it will be increased by the times you have been using this. Remember, this applies to the full race distance at Istanbul and Road Atlanta.
If you used this exploit 1 time, we will add a one-lap penalty in that race.
If you used this exploit 2 times, we will add an additional 2 laps on top of that.
If you used this exploit 3 times, we will add an additional 3 laps on top of that.
If you used this exploit 4 times, we will add an additional 4 laps on top of that.

As an example, a team found doing it 3 times, will get a 6 lap penalty, 4 times get 10 laps and so on. We feel this is a significant penalty to those that used it more than once, outside of a "normal" strategy call.

Again, it is important to note that we are not calling this cheating, as this can be done by accident - so some of the teams that gained an advantage here has by no means tried to gain an unfair advantage, but the reason for our decision is that it is done in a more systematic approach from some teams than what we initially saw.

Round 1 none

Round 2
#6 Black Hawk Racing: 36 lap penalty
#1 1ACO: 1 lap penalty
#123 Scuderie Giantruck: 1 lap penalty
#130 Veles: 3 lap penalty
#160 HYDR Esport: 3 lap penalty
#157 SRP SINL Team: 1 lap penalty

All results and standings are updated, thread will stay open as long as you behave, otherwise it will be closed
 

Nico Barclay

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FWI @Bernd Schmidt #1 1Aco swaped on a forced 3 cut stop n go, swap was made to reset the cut count to 0, no need to change tyres for that- pit was made off strategy mostly when the 5 laps to serve ran out so driver could join the server , even the lap down didnt make anything to the result we dont want to be known as exploiters along with the rest of the teams on that list. ty
 
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