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Welcome to SimRacing.Club
We are an online racing league, and has years of experience using S397´s rFactor 2. We have several series - VEC which is the official rFactor 2 endurance championship. 6-24 hour races - its all about endurance.
VEC´s feeder series Virtual Le Mans Series and several special events - Plenty of racing. Register today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll just need to introduce yourself and then you can start off in our Academy series

Race 7 - 8 hours of Silverstone

Mikko Korkiakoski

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@Jimmi Allison
Posting this again because it seems it went unnoticed the first time. The points in Div1 LMP2 seem to be incorrect. Raijin finished P9 but received no points. And it seems Zakspeed got our 2p and Feeder 1p. When it in fact should have been Raijin 2p, Zakspeed 1p and Feeder 0p.
 

Jimmi Allison

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@Jimmi Allison
Posting this again because it seems it went unnoticed the first time. The points in Div1 LMP2 seem to be incorrect. Raijin finished P9 but received no points. And it seems Zakspeed got our 2p and Feeder 1p. When it in fact should have been Raijin 2p, Zakspeed 1p and Feeder 0p.
any inregularities, can you post these in Contact staff please then i have a to-do list. This was done yesterday really quick and have yet to be doublechecked, thanks (at least then i remember).
 

Kalle Kouri

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Game handles the track cuts!
I personally very much like it's the simulation that handles cuts - no question about that. I'm also happy to hear there has been work done in rF2 so there's some intelligence involved. What we saw at Copse could have been just rF2 doing comparison against driver's fastest race lap so far. As you can be quite of bit faster with fresh tires then afterwards taking wider line with worn tires could still be slower hence rF2 doesn't consider it as a cut. No automation is perfect and it's probably very difficult to make a system which could handle all situations 100% of the time. Maybe Studio 397 could review the code and check if there's room for improvement. Personally got tons of track cut warnings during practice laps but only single one during my 2 hours of racing; LMP2 forced us into outer line through last corner and I did not want to lift the throttle. :) And it wasn't difference in track cut system between practice and race - I just kept it within limits learned from the practice.

But I still do think if someone finds a glitch, makes use of it systematically and gains clear advantage then it could be considered as unsportsmanlike behavior. Did see few crazy wide lines at Copse on the live feed and driver not getting cut warning. Was it happening all the time and did they gain clear advantage - that I did not see and do not know. And not my place to judge.
 

Tobias Lange

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What rule are you refering to? the track cuts rule?
Everything with 10.x

"10.1 Drivers must keep a minimum of 2 wheels inside the solid white lines on the race track at all times." + images
-> if you go over the white line with all 4 wheels, nothing will happen, if the game does nothing.

"10.2 If/when there are any exceptions to this rule, they will be posted in the weekly Race Announcement thread."
-> how do you want to announce exceptions without changing the mod? And If the track will be updated, the game will still handle the cuts.

"10.3 Drivers are allowed to go off more than 2 wheels to avoid an accident or to avoid another car. Drivers are not allowed to go off to improve their lap time. If a driver has more than 2 wheels cross outside the white line, they can immediately lift off throttle and apply brakes for 1 second to eliminate this instance of being off from counting against their total."
-> this is a description how to avoid the automatic cut

"10.4 During qualifying and race, drivers must ensure they don’t go more than 2-off on their fastest lap. Failure to do so will lead to a DQ of qualification lap and start from the back end on the grid."
-> qualifying: if you get a cut, the time is invalid and if nobody checks the laps manually, nobody have a chance to be DQed

"10.4.1 If drivers cut the track or go 4 off, they will need to slow down and give back the advantage gained – both in race and in qualifying."
-> this is a description how to avoid the automatic cut. If you slow down after you got the cut, the cut will remain active and I guess nobody slow down after he got a cut

So my suggestion would be something like that:
10.1 Track cuts will be handled by the game
10.2 If a driver find a way to "cheat" the cut system (figured out by IRR or race director), the race stewards will decide about a penalty.

With 10.2 I mean something like the cut-bug in Interlagos:
 

JT Tami

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Everything with 10.x

"10.1 Drivers must keep a minimum of 2 wheels inside the solid white lines on the race track at all times." + images
-> if you go over the white line with all 4 wheels, nothing will happen, if the game does nothing.
This depends on track and the corner. If another team, who does follow the rules, submit an IRR against you for going over the white line constantly, you could be penalized by the stewards

"10.2 If/when there are any exceptions to this rule, they will be posted in the weekly Race Announcement thread."
-> how do you want to announce exceptions without changing the mod? And If the track will be updated, the game will still handle the cuts.
Think of T5 exit at Road Atlanta. Theres a ton of curb, which goes beyond the white line, but is generally ignored by all sanctioning bodies who run races there (its even encouraged by track instructions to go over the line and use the curbs). In the past, its been noted in the main post for Road Atlanta race threads that this corner exit track ruling is relaxed.

"10.3 Drivers are allowed to go off more than 2 wheels to avoid an accident or to avoid another car. Drivers are not allowed to go off to improve their lap time. If a driver has more than 2 wheels cross outside the white line, they can immediately lift off throttle and apply brakes for 1 second to eliminate this instance of being off from counting against their total."
-> this is a description how to avoid the automatic cut
Even if you get bumped off track from contact, depending on where the cut line is in the game, it can be easy to get a cut before the driver can slow. Sometimes slowing doesn't even help, as I found out earlier this season while limping under 50mph and received a cut. While you can follow those steps to avoid getting a cut, it might not always work. So it reasonable that in some corners, the cut detection may not trigger 1 foot away from the white line, depending on the type of corner and the likely hood of cars being sent off track.

"10.4 During qualifying and race, drivers must ensure they don’t go more than 2-off on their fastest lap. Failure to do so will lead to a DQ of qualification lap and start from the back end on the grid."
-> qualifying: if you get a cut, the time is invalid and if nobody checks the laps manually, nobody have a chance to be DQed
Same as 10.1. If you want to run the risk and try to get away with it, good luck. But Ive noticed that many teams watch their competition very closely, and there have been qualifying IRRs submitted in the past.

"10.4.1 If drivers cut the track or go 4 off, they will need to slow down and give back the advantage gained – both in race and in qualifying."
-> this is a description how to avoid the automatic cut. If you slow down after you got the cut, the cut will remain active and I guess nobody slow down after he got a cut
This is for those who go 4 over and do not get an auto cut. If you gain an advantage from going 4 over, even if the game doesn't penalize you, you could receive an IRR post race and get penalized for it.
 

Jimmi Allison

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I can't insert quotes via edit...
That’s just plain stupid and one of the reasons the 10. Does not need a lot of edits. People know the game detects cuts. But as you know the rules are under review, but no there won’t be any edits just now. Again I don’t see an issue, people don’t behave like the above unless they have nothing better to do. I could become very strict on the cut track but then you have the other side of the camp complaining. Check out le Mans when it is released and you will understand why a little room is slightly better.

But that video is a straight DQ and lifetime ban if ever used. No matter what rules state. I don’t want that stuff here.
Game detects track cuts - but we are talking about the 1cm- whatever / I think we all can agree that the video is something else.
 

Shane Chancellor

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A good race for us at Flatline once again, my 2 hours were boring, 1 minute behind 2nd, 40s(ish) ahead of 4th, everyone doing the same lap times for the whole 2 hours (really promoting my videos here XD)
Full report: Flatline Racing - FB

Flatline #166 (D2 GTE)
(Part 1 - hour 6)

(Part 2 - hour 7)
Well if p2s didnt fight hard into turn one for last place in the 1st 20 mins of an 8 hour race and kill our race we would have been closer.
 

Matt Strand

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In any case I'm not trying to defend some bs moves from the P2's, I'm aware of them. But u make it look like the GTE's dont have any responsability
That's not what I said. GTE's absolutely carry responsibility and working together with the prototype classes. What I actually said
Top GT cars are real good at defending their spot (legally) and making a P driver think longer about their potentially ill advised dive.
meaning we can see a Prototype coming and generally have a pretty good feeling if they're about to do something that will hamper both cars unnecessarily. The biggest issue of which is divebombs when the GT is already turning in and a proto still throws it up the inside. To prevent that, yes GTs will defend the line before the proto gets there to keep them from thinking there's an opening. That's traffic management from the GT side of things.

Also,
Precisely one of the biggest difference I see from VEC to WEC or IMSA is that the GTE's there are really cooperative with the protos
you should watch the races, particularly IMSA, a bit closer. You'll see GT cars "defend" and discourage certain prototype behavior regularly. Tommy Kendall quotes 1 of Andy Lally's techniques for it specifically in this clip. video should start at 41:14
 

Mikko Korkiakoski

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Having raced GTE last season and LMP2 this season, I can certainly understand both sides of the argument. In the beginning of the season I wanted to be as friendly towards the GTE/LMP3 drivers as possible when lapping them. But that only ended up costing me time and car damage. I found that if I'm not aggressive in lapping, the GTE/LMP3 drivers would not give me any opportunities for a "safe" pass. By this I mean they would not lift to allow me to pass before the corner to minimize our time loss or make it easier in any way. This was again very noticeable in Silverstone, where maybe 1 or 2 drivers actually lifted slightly before T1 to allow a safe passage for both of us. Too many times they fought until the end of the straight where I was side by side with them in turn entry, making it pretty dangerous. Some guys even changed lines in turns to block me passing for several turns. I had to learn this the hard way this season and I admit I didn't do many favours to prototypes last season either. Yes us proto drivers could be a little more patient, but at the same time the slower classes should also be a little more accomodating, because they are still being lapped. I hope at Le Mans all the classes can be a little more accomodating towards the others.
 

Don Baumbach

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So my suggestion would be something like that:
10.1 Track cuts will be handled by the game
10.2 If a driver find a way to "cheat" the cut system (figured out by IRR or race director), the race stewards will decide about a penalty.

With 10.2 I mean something like the cut-bug in Interlagos:
Tobias was simply pointing out that the rules written right now were prior to use of track cut system. The current rules offer a clear definition of a cut... but with current workload on stewards/race director, its seems that you really would not want teams to submit IRRs for cuts as they are defined by the rules, but not detected by game. probably only the most extreme (such as the 'stupid' cut depicted in the interlagos video)
 

Borja Millan

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That's not what I said. GTE's absolutely carry responsibility and working together with the prototype classes. What I actually said
meaning we can see a Prototype coming and generally have a pretty good feeling if they're about to do something that will hamper both cars unnecessarily. The biggest issue of which is divebombs when the GT is already turning in and a proto still throws it up the inside. To prevent that, yes GTs will defend the line before the proto gets there to keep them from thinking there's an opening. That's traffic management from the GT side of things.

Also,

you should watch the races, particularly IMSA, a bit closer. You'll see GT cars "defend" and discourage certain prototype behavior regularly. Tommy Kendall quotes 1 of Andy Lally's techniques for it specifically in this clip. video should start at 41:14
I agree with you and with what is said in that video, P2's don't own the track. But you can go back to my first comment, and you'll see that I'm talking about SAFE moves, not about divebombs. There's one or two GTE's teams, which I'll not name, that ALWAYS close the door. Don't worry it's not your team :p
 

Tony Mella

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Yes us proto drivers could be a little more patient
The problem is that for certain teams/drivers it's not just "a little more". Everytime they were behind me they took the most aggressive option. I've been divebombed at places where the braking zone is 30m long and without any warning like flashing headlight or something. How am i supposed to know if i'm getting divebombed when the P2 is 300m away ?
 
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