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Questions after reading the rules [long post]

James Andrew

VEC Division 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
37
#1
Hi, if my car's entry is approved, this will be my first season in VEC, although my team has competed before. I have many questions after reading the rules (which do seem much less well-written than those of the SRCA). Anyway, here goes:
  • 1.7.1 regarding who can start the car in the race, states "...new drivers are not allowed...". For clarity, is a "new driver" one in their first VEC race or anywhere in their first VEC season?
  • 1.9 regarding drivers not using more than one car in a given race. Elsewhere on the forum a question has cropped up about a driver possibly alternating between team cars within a season, which Jimmi has said "No" to. However, like the person who asked, my reading of the rules sees nothing against that as the rules are currently written. Re-write probably needed.
  • 3.2 regarding fastest qualifying time includes a clause stating "the Q driver MUST start the car." What if the fastest driver for a car in qualifying is also a "New" driver as discussed in my first question? Which rule takes precedence?
  • 4.2.9 regarding the formation lap contains two contradictory clauses. [Drivers falling out of line] "must not attempt to pass other cars in order to regain their place" yet can also "carefully make their way through the grid to their assigned starting spot".
  • 5.1.8 regarding the "Gentleman's Rule". While I would think that what is meant by that phrase is merely slowing and allowing somebody to re-pass you if you feel you have wronged them, there is actually no definition in the rules of what the VEC means by "Gentleman's Rule". This section mentions that we should "apply the GR", but it does not describe exactly what applying it involves.
  • 6.9 is a rule which makes no sense to me. I do not know what it is referencing but I have to assume that it was inserted for a specific situation. I do not know what this rule means or when to expect it to apply.
  • 7.3 and 8.5 both make clear that headlights should be turned on for pit stops. I'd like some clarification about timing of the lights please. Is it intended that you turn on lights a few corners early in an attempt to warn people that you will enter the pits and are you also required to leave them on until after turn 1, for example? Or is it all purely for the length of the speed-limited main pit area?
  • 8.3 says that drivers on-track are not allowed to use the pit blend lane as part of the racing surface. a) is that both entry and exit blend lines? b) is that a blanket rule of "put a wheel there and get an instant penalty" or just an "if you go there while racing you are in an Orange Zone and will be heavily penalised if anything happens"?
  • 10.3 references easing off if a driver puts the car outside track limits so that the instance does not count against their total. What total is being counted, where, by whom, and how can a driver know his current count?
  • 10.4 suggests that fastest laps of all cars are manually checked for track limits infractions. Is this correct or is it to allow for laps to be reported/protested by other teams?
  • 10.4.1 is another item unclear to me with regard to how such events are noted. Applies only if a live steward happens to notice the incident or a protest is filed?
  • 11.5.1 gives me two queries. a) is a "new driver" in their first race or their first season? b) what does "FLT" stand for?
  • 11.5.2 about lapping within 103%: is this a strictly enforced rule or a method to allow for drivers to be excluded if so desired? Also, is it up to participants to work out what 103% is or is there a statement somewhere of what the 103% time is or which drivers are currently outside it?
  • 13.5 regarding shortcut penalties. Is this talking about the automatic cut detections by the client software (where I thought three leads to a penalty) or is this talking about shortcuts seen by or reported to the live stewards?
  • 15.5.2 regarding rejoining from pits during Code 80. My reading of this is that, if you exit the pits and are alongside the first car of a three-car train, you are required to drop behind the final car of the train, not just behind the first car. Correct?
  • 15.10 leaves me unsure what action is required if such a call is made. Should a driver treat the entire sector as a Code 80 (because this rule is in the Code 80 section of the rules), or should they merely treat it is if seeing yellow flags and slow appropriately?
  • 15.11 might be a problem if a driver is on his final permitted lap before serving an existing penalty. As that would be a DQ from the client software if not served, presumably Force Majeure would apply and we would be alright as long as we inform the stewards?
  • Section 16 - Safety Ratings. Is a driver able to find his current safety rating? Will he be notified after a race if his rating falls (regardless of the level it dropped to)?
Sorry if that seems picky. I do enjoy a rule book or reading a manual or just proofreading. Thanks in advance, though.
 

Bernd Schmidt

Administrator
SR.C License 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
1,419
#2
1.7.1 regarding who can start the car in the race, states "...new drivers are not allowed...". For clarity, is a "new driver" one in their first VEC race or anywhere in their first VEC season?
New driver here is defined as added during the season

1.9 regarding drivers not using more than one car in a given race. Elsewhere on the forum a question has cropped up about a driver possibly alternating between team cars within a season, which Jimmi has said "No" to. However, like the person who asked, my reading of the rules sees nothing against that as the rules are currently written. Re-write probably needed.
This counts on race day, so if you've joined the practice session with your car, your team mate is not allowd to join you on the race server then

3.2 regarding fastest qualifying time includes a clause stating "the Q driver MUST start the car." What if the fastest driver for a car in qualifying is also a "New" driver as discussed in my first question? Which rule takes precedence?
If this is the case, the new driver is not allowd to drive the qualifying either, so one of the other drivers have to do it

4.2.9 regarding the formation lap contains two contradictory clauses. [Drivers falling out of line] "must not attempt to pass other cars in order to regain their place" yet can also "carefully make their way through the grid to their assigned starting spot".
Cant see your problem here, but lemme try to get it done anyways, it means if you spin in the formation lap, you've to wait til the complete field has passed, then you're allowd to get back to your position in a safe way (race director can change that if needed)

5.1.8 regarding the "Gentleman's Rule". While I would think that what is meant by that phrase is merely slowing and allowing somebody to re-pass you if you feel you have wronged them, there is actually no definition in the rules of what the VEC means by "Gentleman's Rule". This section mentions that we should "apply the GR", but it does not describe exactly what applying it involves.
It's just the simple GR as it is, so we would like when drivers just have this in mind in case they missjudged a situation, then just try to give the position back. If it's a bigger incident the race director will watch it live during the race and will hand a penalty if GR can't help

6.9 is a rule which makes no sense to me. I do not know what it is referencing but I have to assume that it was inserted for a specific situation. I do not know what this rule means or when to expect it to apply.
I let this up to @Jimmi Allison can't remember that, but i do believe it's just outdated or i'm just a bad boy :D

7.3 and 8.5 both make clear that headlights should be turned on for pit stops. I'd like some clarification about timing of the lights please. Is it intended that you turn on lights a few corners early in an attempt to warn people that you will enter the pits and are you also required to leave them on until after turn 1, for example? Or is it all purely for the length of the speed-limited main pit area?
Best case would be turn it on before you reach the last turn and turn it off when exiting the pits, during night you can just flas it once in front of another car if you do think the driver behind wont get it that you go into the pits, anyways that hasn't been a big deal last seasons

8.3 says that drivers on-track are not allowed to use the pit blend lane as part of the racing surface. a) is that both entry and exit blend lines? b) is that a blanket rule of "put a wheel there and get an instant penalty" or just an "if you go there while racing you are in an Orange Zone and will be heavily penalised if anything happens"?
Really IMPORTANT, never ever touch the pit exit line!!! This will also be said on race day during the drivers briefing, we'll point it out every race and if there is some exception it will be also pointed out in the race thread ;)

10.3 references easing off if a driver puts the car outside track limits so that the instance does not count against their total. What total is being counted, where, by whom, and how can a driver know his current count?
It's handled from the game since last season, you get cut warnings and after the 3rd you'll get a penalty from the game

10.4 suggests that fastest laps of all cars are manually checked for track limits infractions. Is this correct or is it to allow for laps to be reported/protested by other teams?
Same as on 10.3 game will handle it

10.4.1 is another item unclear to me with regard to how such events are noted. Applies only if a live steward happens to notice the incident or a protest is filed?
Also same as above, if needed race director will give info on teamspeak

11.5.1 gives me two queries. a) is a "new driver" in their first race or their first season? b) what does "FLT" stand for?
new drivers are when they signed up during the season b) Fast Lap Tracker

11.5.2 about lapping within 103%: is this a strictly enforced rule or a method to allow for drivers to be excluded if so desired? Also, is it up to participants to work out what 103% is or is there a statement somewhere of what the 103% time is or which drivers are currently outside it?
That counts for the new driver and is mandatory, if he is slower than this (counts for the fastest time in class) we'll get in touch with you/make a post that their might be an infraction with this driver

13.5 regarding shortcut penalties. Is this talking about the automatic cut detections by the client software (where I thought three leads to a penalty) or is this talking about shortcuts seen by or reported to the live stewards?
Its made autmatic by the game meanwhile, if not race director will give an advise on teamspeak

15.5.2 regarding rejoining from pits during Code 80. My reading of this is that, if you exit the pits and are alongside the first car of a three-car train, you are required to drop behind the final car of the train, not just behind the first car. Correct?
Yes behind the last car of the train

15.10 leaves me unsure what action is required if such a call is made. Should a driver treat the entire sector as a Code 80 (because this rule is in the Code 80 section of the rules), or should they merely treat it is if seeing yellow flags and slow appropriately?
That just means that in this sector is a damaged car and is normally called as, "be careful there is a slow car in sector 3 around the porsche curves". Thats just as an example, means you dont have to drive 80 but you should slow down to not be surprised to much by it.

15.11 might be a problem if a driver is on his final permitted lap before serving an existing penalty. As that would be a DQ from the client software if not served, presumably Force Majeure would apply and we would be alright as long as we inform the stewards?
We normally won't call a code 80 in the last minutes, this will mainly be a warning for sectors that there is a slow/damaged car, so this should not be a problem at all

Section 16 - Safety Ratings. Is a driver able to find his current safety rating? Will he be notified after a race if his rating falls (regardless of the level it dropped to)?
That will be renewed, but i can't say more about it ;) Infos will come

Hope i could awnser you everything and thanks for reading it and ask everything which was unclear, it might also help others which has not been sure about some rule. If there is anything i was missing Jimmi will add it and i might get fired out as a race director :D :D Anyways it's late, so if there is any question dont hestiate and ask here on the forum. Have a good season
 

Jan Studenski

VEC Division 4
VLMS
SRC Season pass
Messages
393
#3
@Bernd Schmidt I have also some questions about the rules, especially concerning liveries:
2.1 VLMS will provide teams with a correct numberplate as we equip cars with “illuminated” plates.
2.1.1. Your team are NOT allowed to move the numberplate
2.1.2 Your team are NOT allowed to type numbers to the numberplate on the side of the car, please refer to 2.1
2.2 New skins will be accepted for use as follows:
2.2.1 Before the skin submission deadline.
2.2.2 In rare occasions we can open skin submission, we do not update the mod for each race.
2.3 Class colors:
2.3.1 LM-P2=Blue(#336699)
2.3.2 LM-GT=Green (#009639)
2.4 Class stickers (provided on car templates)
2.4.1 Prototype: The 3 category stickers must be affixed to each side of the car and to the front bonnet, close to the backgrounds of the numbers.
2.4.2 GT cars: the 4 category stickers must be affixed to each side of the car, to the front bonnet and to the rear of the car, close to the backgrounds of the numbers (except for the sticker situated at the rear of the car).
2.5
Teams will not be allowed to change carmake during the season.
2.5.1 On rare occasions such as mod update (from URD) we will allow some teams to move to another car
2.6 Approved Liveries: Profanity, nudity, or anything VLMS admins deem as offensive is not allowed.
2.7 Teams will be required to provide an approved skin, failure to supply such – will mean the entry will not be allowed to race.
Is this still up to date? especially:
• 2.1
• 2.4 (same for VEC)
• 2.3
2.3 Class colors:
2.3.1 P2=Blue (#21488c)
[...]
2.3.3
GTE=Green (#009639)

Generally I am not sure anymore about the numberplates, does VLMS andor VEC provide the correct numberplates with the correct number on it (and basically we should not touch them), or should the teams do it themselves? or only partially?
 
Last edited:

Simon Marshall

VEC Division 4
VLMS
SRC Season pass
Messages
86
#4
James Andrew said:
1.9 regarding drivers not using more than one car in a given race. Elsewhere on the forum a question has cropped up about a driver possibly alternating between team cars within a season, which Jimmi has said "No" to. However, like the person who asked, my reading of the rules sees nothing against that as the rules are currently written. Re-write probably needed.
This counts on race day, so if you've joined the practice session with your car, your team mate is not allowd to join you on the race server then




I think the answer does not really address the question, I believe the question is can one driver be registered for 2 cars , even if he only races one car per race, for example registered as a P2 and a GTE driver, race one he drives the P2 and race two he drives the GTE, Jimmi has said no already, but feel it needs clarifying here
 

Daniele Vidimari

VEC Division 4
VLMS
SRC Season pass
Messages
57
#5
"This counts on race day, so if you've joined the practice session with your car, your team mate is not allowd to join you on the race server then"

I'd like to have more details about this.
 

Shawn Jacobs

VEC Division 1
VLMS
SRC Season pass
Messages
385
#6
"This counts on race day, so if you've joined the practice session with your car, your team mate is not allowd to join you on the race server then"

I'd like to have more details about this.
Basically once the official practice session starts only 1 car per entry is allowed on the server.

For example I couldn't have 3 SpeedyMite #48 lmp3s running around doing laps.
 

Daniele Vidimari

VEC Division 4
VLMS
SRC Season pass
Messages
57
#7
Basically once the official practice session starts only 1 car per entry is allowed on the server.

For example I couldn't have 3 SpeedyMite #48 lmp3s running around doing laps.
But is allowed to do a driver swap and let my teammates have some practice?
 

Yoeri Gijsen

VEC Division 2
VLMS
SRC Season pass
Messages
269
#9
Note that there is usually a practice server online for practice during the event, so no need to driver swap in official practice.
 

Bernd Schmidt

Administrator
SR.C License 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
1,419
#10
@Bernd Schmidt I have also some questions about the rules, especially concerning liveries:
2.1 VLMS will provide teams with a correct numberplate as we equip cars with “illuminated” plates.
2.1.1. Your team are NOT allowed to move the numberplate
2.1.2 Your team are NOT allowed to type numbers to the numberplate on the side of the car, please refer to 2.1
2.2 New skins will be accepted for use as follows:
2.2.1 Before the skin submission deadline.
2.2.2 In rare occasions we can open skin submission, we do not update the mod for each race.
2.3 Class colors:
2.3.1 LM-P2=Blue(#336699)
2.3.2 LM-GT=Green (#009639)
2.4 Class stickers (provided on car templates)
2.4.1 Prototype: The 3 category stickers must be affixed to each side of the car and to the front bonnet, close to the backgrounds of the numbers.
2.4.2 GT cars: the 4 category stickers must be affixed to each side of the car, to the front bonnet and to the rear of the car, close to the backgrounds of the numbers (except for the sticker situated at the rear of the car).
2.5
Teams will not be allowed to change carmake during the season.
2.5.1 On rare occasions such as mod update (from URD) we will allow some teams to move to another car
2.6 Approved Liveries: Profanity, nudity, or anything VLMS admins deem as offensive is not allowed.
2.7 Teams will be required to provide an approved skin, failure to supply such – will mean the entry will not be allowed to race.
Is this still up to date? especially:
• 2.1
• 2.4 (same for VEC)
• 2.3
2.3 Class colors:
2.3.1 P2=Blue (#21488c)
[...]
2.3.3
GTE=Green (#009639)

Generally I am not sure anymore about the numberplates, does VLMS andor VEC provide the correct numberplates with the correct number on it (and basically we should not touch them), or should the teams do it themselves? or only partially?
2.1 is now updated, so you're allowd to put your number on the plate by your own, but you're not allowd to move the plate to any other location. Class colours are correct, P2 is blue and GTE is green, as we do not have P3's we don't need the purple.
 

Bernd Schmidt

Administrator
SR.C License 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
1,419
#11
James Andrew said:
1.9 regarding drivers not using more than one car in a given race. Elsewhere on the forum a question has cropped up about a driver possibly alternating between team cars within a season, which Jimmi has said "No" to. However, like the person who asked, my reading of the rules sees nothing against that as the rules are currently written. Re-write probably needed.
This counts on race day, so if you've joined the practice session with your car, your team mate is not allowd to join you on the race server then




I think the answer does not really address the question, I believe the question is can one driver be registered for 2 cars , even if he only races one car per race, for example registered as a P2 and a GTE driver, race one he drives the P2 and race two he drives the GTE, Jimmi has said no already, but feel it needs clarifying here
No, one driver can only be signed up on one car

Example:
Team: SRC Racing P2
Driver: Bernd Schmidt

Team: SRC Racing GTE
Driver: Bernd Schmidt

That would not be allow, i would have to chose on which car/team i would like to race
 

Bernd Schmidt

Administrator
SR.C License 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
1,419
#12
"This counts on race day, so if you've joined the practice session with your car, your team mate is not allowd to join you on the race server then"

I'd like to have more details about this.
As the guys above explained it, on race day it's one driver per car allowd to join the official practice session / race server. If we see one of you team mates is on the server with the same car, we'll tell you that one of you've to leave the server, as also said driver swaps during this sessions are not allowd, that is just to not stress the server that much before the race, of there are hardware issues or internet problems for the driver which is on the server, you can ask for permission of a driver swap on TS
 
Messages
17,283
#13
I hope you had all the answers you need James, so i wont go through the list.
Now because we dont allow this is that each users gets an ID from the server, and with 150-200 drivers in a race this can easily be an issue if we had several drivers on the server during practice session.
So it is a BIG no go, dont even think about it! if you do, we will take actions towards it ;)
 

James Andrew

VEC Division 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
37
#14
No, one driver can only be signed up on one car

Example:
Team: SRC Racing P2
Driver: Bernd Schmidt

Team: SRC Racing GTE
Driver: Bernd Schmidt

That would not be allow, i would have to chose on which car/team i would like to race
This is clear, thank you. However, as the rules are currently written, they DO NOT equal this explanation. Nothing in the current rules seems to prevent someone from changing to a different car for each new race. The rules need to be re-written or extended.
 

James Andrew

VEC Division 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
37
#15
Thank you for a very quick and detailed response, Bernd. In a few items I think there has been a misunderstanding of what I meant, or I am not fully understanding your answer:
Cant see your problem here, but lemme try to get it done anyways, it means if you spin in the formation lap, you've to wait til the complete field has passed, then you're allowd to get back to your position in a safe way (race director can change that if needed)
My point is that the rule states very clearly that [Drivers falling out of line] "must not attempt to pass other cars in order to regain their place" AND THEN JUST AFTERWARDS says "carefully make their way through the grid to their assigned starting spot". This is two totally opposite statements. Your explanation tells me that a driver IS allowed to find their way back safely, but the rule is not correctly written for what is actually meant.

Really IMPORTANT, never ever touch the pit exit line!!! This will also be said on race day during the drivers briefing, we'll point it out every race and if there is some exception it will be also pointed out in the race thread ;)
I can foresee situations at places like Sao Paulo or Sepang where two GTs might be side by side next to the pit exit line and a P2 comes up to pass them. If he goes three-wide, and into the pit exit lane (having seen nobody is there) he will be eligible for a penalty? Seems strange. If that IS the intended meaning of the rule then please say because I would not normally worry about such a situation.

We normally won't call a code 80 in the last minutes, this will mainly be a warning for sectors that there is a slow/damaged car, so this should not be a problem at all
What I meant is that when a driver is given a penalty, he has three laps to serve it. If he waits and the client software shows him one more lap or be DQd, he would have to pit and serve it even if a Code 80 has been called. In that case, what should the team do? Serve it but know another penalty will come from the stewards afterwards? Or inform stewards of the situation and get special permission to stop and serve a penalty during Code 80?
 

James Andrew

VEC Division 4
SRC Season pass
Messages
37
#16
You know, anybody would think I'm either a lawyer or an annoying law student. I'm not, but I've done plenty of programming, so logic is important to me. Sorry to be awkward. :oops:
 
Messages
17,283
#17
Thank you for a very quick and detailed response, Bernd. In a few items I think there has been a misunderstanding of what I meant, or I am not fully understanding your answer:
My point is that the rule states very clearly that [Drivers falling out of line] "must not attempt to pass other cars in order to regain their place" AND THEN JUST AFTERWARDS says "carefully make their way through the grid to their assigned starting spot". This is two totally opposite statements. Your explanation tells me that a driver IS allowed to find their way back safely, but the rule is not correctly written for what is actually meant.
I understand your point and actually we normally tell these drivers what to do, this is worth looking into before the season for sure. I will make sure to remember this

I can foresee situations at places like Sao Paulo or Sepang where two GTs might be side by side next to the pit exit line and a P2 comes up to pass them. If he goes three-wide, and into the pit exit lane (having seen nobody is there) he will be eligible for a penalty? Seems strange. If that IS the intended meaning of the rule then please say because I would not normally worry about such a situation.
You just had to pick Interlagos, see up until now we´ve used the track cuts to decide penalties there. I am not 100% decided what to do next season. However EACH race there is exceptions posted in case they are needed.

What I meant is that when a driver is given a penalty, he has three laps to serve it. If he waits and the client software shows him one more lap or be DQd, he would have to pit and serve it even if a Code 80 has been called. In that case, what should the team do? Serve it but know another penalty will come from the stewards afterwards? Or inform stewards of the situation and get special permission to stop and serve a penalty during Code 80?
We have "upped" the limit of laps you can do before recievning a DQ - so they have 5, never ever ever go to the 5th lap, because then there will be an issue. Race director might be busy with something else - so again we did add a few more laps to it, just in case.
Obviously in an ideal world, race director can remove it and then add it again.
 

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